Alvin McLean interviewed by Reuben Beltran
Ruben Beltran (00:02): Hi, my name is Ruben Beltran. We'e here at Sullivan Correctional Facility doing the art class interview, and I have in front of me:
Alvin McLean (00:11): Alvin McLean.
Ruben Beltran (00:12): Okay, Alvin, uh, we just finished twelve weeks of art program. I wanna ask, before this class, did you consider yourself and artist? Before this class?
Alvin McLean (00:24): I don't- I don't even consider myself an artist after this class.
Ruben Beltran (00:27): (laughs) And why is that?
Alvin McLean (00:30): Um... Well, I-
Ruben Beltran (00:30): After we––I mean, after the poem, after everything you did?
Alvin McLean (00:35): I... I just see myself as someone that likes to do everything and to participate in everything and to enjoy myself doing things. So-
Ruben Beltran (00:44): What sort of things?
Alvin McLean (00:45): Um, cre-creative things.
Ruben Beltran (00:47): Mm-hmm.
Alvin McLean (00:49): Things that I can do to express my creativity as much as I can. And, that's really what-that's really how I see myself.
Ruben Beltran (00:57): And this classed helped you do that?
Alvin McLean (00:58): A creator. Ye-yes, this class did help me–
Ruben Beltran (01:01): Yes?
Alvin McLean (01:02): –um, pursue creating.
Ruben Beltran (01:04): Where do you find inspiration?
Alvin McLean (01:07): Um...
Ruben Beltran (01:09): Before this class, let's say. Where did you find inspiration before this class? If anything changed afterwards.
Alvin McLean (01:16): Well, I'm-I'm definitely self-inspired, so-
Ruben Beltran (01:19): Mm-hmm.
Alvin McLean (01:21): Or, the-the class didn't really inspire me, but what the class did do is give me an outlet to express some of my creative energy that I wouldn't normally express, um, had I been, you know, just sittin' in the block,
Ruben Beltran (01:38): Yeah.
Alvin McLean (01:39): –watching television, or in the cell, listening to the radio, or something.
Ruben Beltran (01:42): So, while you did this class, you never thought about doing that? The poem you did, for example. You never thought of sitting in your cell and just doing that? You just came in here and-
Alvin McLean (01:53): Well, I've-I've written poetry in the past, but it's been a long time since I en-engaged in that type of, uh, creative––creativity.
Ruben Beltran (02:05): Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Alvin McLean (02:05): It's been awhile.
Ruben Beltran (02:05): That's good, that's good. And, again, before this class, uh, did you find inspiration, in-in family, in friends, anything in particular? Or it just happens?
Alvin McLean (02:22): As-as far as, um, inspiration, as far as artistically?
Ruben Beltran (02:26): Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Alvin McLean (02:28): Um, no, it just happens. It just happens. It-it's not-I'm not motivated by family and friends-
Ruben Beltran (02:34): Yeah, yeah.
Alvin McLean (02:35): –to create art. I'm just, you know, it's-it's inspirational whenever it comes to me.
Ruben Beltran (02:40): When you feel. When you feel.
Alvin McLean (02:41): When it comes to me, yes.
Ruben Beltran (02:42): And, have you taken any other similar class to this before this one?
Alvin McLean (02:47): No.
Ruben Beltran (02:48): This is your first time. Any other class that deal with creativity, this is your first time. Writing and anything like that?
Alvin McLean (02:55): Well-well, I've taken writing classes, but not-it was-it wasn't as enjoyable as this was.
Ruben Beltran (03:02): (laughs) Yeah, yeah, this was fun. This was fun, yeah, definitely. Eh, well, I was very impressed by what you did. Because, again, I–
Alvin McLean (03:11): Thank you.
Ruben Beltran (03:12): I know from-from-from the law library and that's about it.
Alvin McLean (03:15): Right.
Ruben Beltran (03:15): See you more as a lawyer than a writer. (laughs) So I was very-I was very surprised by what you wrote, what you draw, what you did, and-and I enjoy it very much.
Alvin McLean (03:23): Mm-hmm.
Ruben Beltran (03:24): And I-I think that you should continue doing that.
Alvin McLean (03:29): I probably will.
Ruben Beltran (03:30): I think you should continue, yeah. Because, it-it came out of somewhere in you.
Alvin McLean (03:33): Yes.
Ruben Beltran (03:34): And, where do you think that came from in-from you?
Alvin McLean (03:37): Well, it's, you know, a few years ago I did my-I did purchase some paint. Some acrylics. I-I currently have them. And I was pursuing doing artwork in, you know, in my-in my spare time. I was pursuing doing artwork in my spare time, but um, I just fell off. I just, you know, it didn't-I wasn't in the mood for it until this class.
Ruben Beltran (04:03): So, you think this class reawakened something in you that will continue?
Alvin McLean (04:08): Most definitely. Most definitely it did.
Ruben Beltran (04:10): And you want to share that with everybody else, or you just want to keep it to yourself?
Alvin McLean (04:15): No, I'd love to share it. Um, it-it's not-I don't see the-the artwork as anything personal-
Ruben Beltran (04:23): Yeah, yeah.
Alvin McLean (04:23): -that-that couldn't be shared with anyone.
Ruben Beltran (04:27): So you will show it? You will-
Alvin McLean (04:29): Most definitely.
Ruben Beltran (04:29): -hopefully inspire others to the same way.
Alvin McLean (04:32): Most definitely.
Ruben Beltran (04:32): Yeah, yeah.
Alvin McLean (04:34): Yes. Art is dir-definitely a good outlet for, um, stress. A good stress reliever. Especially in this environment where, um, it-it's easy to become, um, depressed and-and-and down.
Ruben Beltran (04:50): Yeah, yeah.
Alvin McLean (04:50): So, art is something that will keep your mind off of a lot of nega-negative things-
Ruben Beltran (04:55): Yeah, yeah.
Alvin McLean (04:56): -that happen. That-that occur, just, you know, just on a day-to-day basis in here.
Ruben Beltran (05:00): So what would you tell others about this class, then?
Alvin McLean (05:04): Uh, that they should take it. That they should take it and they should, uh, give it-give it a chance to work on them.
Ruben Beltran (05:10): And if they tell you, "I'm not an artist, I don't know how to draw" what will you tell them?
Alvin McLean (05:13): I'll tell 'em that it's-it's not really about drawing. It's about, um, expression and the ability to find ways that you can express yourself how and when you want to.
Ruben Beltran (05:31): Yeah, okay. And, any particular, eh, day in this class that you enjoyed more than others? Or any particular project that we worked on in this class that you enjoyed more than others?
Alvin McLean (05:42): Uh, I'll tell you that one of the favorite moments I had in the class was when, um, was when Patrick was drawing a picture. I-I think it was last week.
Ruben Beltran (06:01): Mm-hmm.
Alvin McLean (06:05): I-I don't know. Was he drawing something of himself? I don't-I don't remember who it was.
Ruben Beltran (06:08): I can't remember either.
Alvin McLean (06:10): Yeah, but-but I noticed that he was a great artist, like wow-
Ruben Beltran (06:13): Yeah, remember you-
Alvin McLean (06:14): -I'd love to draw like that. (laughs)
Ruben Beltran (06:18): (laughs) Yeah, I remember that. Yeah, I was surprised, too, yeah.
Alvin McLean (06:19): Yes, yes.
Ruben Beltran (06:20): 'Cause he himself said he never-he's not an artist-
Alvin McLean (06:22): Right.
Ruben Beltran (06:22): -so everybody was like, "What are you talking about? That is really good."
Alvin McLean (06:25): Yes, yes.
Ruben Beltran (06:26): Yeah. And, eh-eh... Anything particular in the class itself that-that surprised you about yourself that you pulled out? Or that you-that you were, like, "Wow, I never even thought of that. That I could go there mentally or emotionally."
Alvin McLean (06:45): Well, I-I've found that, um... I've found that I have a greater understanding of-of people than-than I did before. Being around people and being around, especially people from outside.
Ruben Beltran (07:04): Yeah.
Alvin McLean (07:05): And it gives me a greater appreciation for people in the world and-and-and how, um, sincere and helpful they can be.
Ruben Beltran (07:16): And what do you think this kind of class does for people in prison?
Alvin McLean (07:23): I think it gives them a-a more worldly experience. Gives them the opportunity to, um, see the world differently.
Ruben Beltran (07:36): Yeah. You think it's therapeutic?
Alvin McLean (07:38): Most definitely.
Ruben Beltran (07:39): Yeah?
Alvin McLean (07:39): Most definitely. Art-artwork is definitely therapeutic. Creating art is therapeutic. No matter what-no matter what form of art it is.
Ruben Beltran (07:48): Or even the skill level. Yeah.
Alvin McLean (07:50): Irrespective of skill level.
Ruben Beltran (07:51): Exactly.
Alvin McLean (07:52): I mean, you know, when-when-when we watch children, in kindergarten drawing with crayons-
Ruben Beltran (07:59): Yeah, yeah.
Alvin McLean (07:59): -they don't really have the skills like that.
Ruben Beltran (08:00): (laughs)
Alvin McLean (08:01): But we know that they're expressing themselves-
Ruben Beltran (08:03): Yeah, yeah.
Alvin McLean (08:03): -and they're having fun.
Ruben Beltran (08:04): Yeah, yeah.
Alvin McLean (08:05): You know, and that's what it was about.
Ruben Beltran (08:07): That-that's the idea. You-you think that this class brought that in you? The five-year-old inside you?
Alvin McLean (08:12): Of course. Most definitely.
Ruben Beltran (08:12): Yeah.
Alvin McLean (08:12): It-it brought me back to a time when, um, whe-when it didn't matter.
Ruben Beltran (08:20): Yeah.
Alvin McLean (08:20): Whether I could draw or not.
Ruben Beltran (08:21): (laughs)
Alvin McLean (08:24): No judgements. No judgements.
Ruben Beltran (08:25): Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know the feeling. I know the feeling, yeah. And eh-eh-eh... Anything particular you learned that you didn't knew before?
Alvin McLean (08:36): Mm, that's an interesting question.
Ruben Beltran (08:40): 'Cause, again, we would understand that it wasn't about the-the-the drawing, the skill, or anything like that, but is there anything you said, "Wow, I never even thought of this before." Anything that catch you like that?
Alvin McLean (08:50): No, not really. Not-nothing that comes to my mind right now. Probably later on I'm gonna wish I said something. (laughs)
Ruben Beltran (08:55): (laughs)
Alvin McLean (08:58): Like, "Oh, man, I shoulda said this!"
Ruben Beltran (08:59): Yeah, yeah.
Alvin McLean (09:00): But, no, nothing's sticking out to me right now.
Ruben Beltran (09:03): Yeah, yeah. And you looked forward-
Alvin McLean (09:03): Like this-it was-
Ruben Beltran (09:03): You looked forward to the class every week?
Alvin McLean (09:06): Yes, I did. I did look forward coming to class every week. Most definitely.
Ruben Beltran (09:11): And what-what specifically wanted to bring you in? What would you say specifically wanted to bringing you in-into the class, that made you come in?
Alvin McLean (09:18): Um, just the opportunity. Just the opportunity-just the opportunity to be creative. That's-that's mostly why I, um, I wanted to participate. And mostly why I continued to participated every week.
Ruben Beltran (09:34): Yeah. What is-did it in any way surprise you, or-or get your attention the way the other guys were inspired and did their work too?
Alvin McLean (09:42): Listen, uh, the-the other guys are artists. I'm just doing whatever I can do. The other guys in here really knew what they were doing, most definitely better than I did. But, you know, I-I-I did my best. I did my best to, uh-
Ruben Beltran (10:00): Hold on, hold on-
Alvin McLean (10:02): Yeah.
Ruben Beltran (10:02): Let's pause a moment. The microphone is not working.
Alvin McLean (10:05): Yeah. Yeah, yeah. We're good?
Ruben Beltran (10:08): Yeah, now you're good.
Alvin McLean (10:09): Yeah, I did my best to try to insure that, um, that I-that I could hold my own. (laughs)
Ruben Beltran (10:15): (laughs) Yeah, yeah, well you certainly did.
Alvin McLean (10:18): Among the Picasso's. (laughs)
Ruben Beltran (10:19): (laughs) No, you did your work, and, like I said, I personally enjoyed it very much. Especially the story, eh, about your daughter.
Alvin McLean (10:27): Okay, yes.
Ruben Beltran (10:28): That was absolutely very moving.
Alvin McLean (10:29): Right.
Ruben Beltran (10:30): Totally out of left field.
Alvin McLean (10:31): Well, in that too, I was sharing, was therapeutic, as well.
Ruben Beltran (10:37): Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Alvin McLean (10:37): Sharing experiences.
Ruben Beltran (10:38): Have you ever told a similar story like that to anybody before this class? Or that was the first time you shared that?
Alvin McLean (10:43): Um... No, I've shared it before.
Ruben Beltran (10:48): Okay.
Alvin McLean (10:48): I've shared it in, um, a college class that-
Ruben Beltran (10:50): Okay.
Alvin McLean (10:51): -that I had with, um, Saint Thomas Aquinas.
Ruben Beltran (10:53): Same form or different form? Or you-you felt more free this time?
Alvin McLean (10:57): Right. I shared it in writing-
Ruben Beltran (11:00): Okay.
Alvin McLean (11:01): -the first time. I-I wrote something, and, um, the professor had someone else read it to the class.
Ruben Beltran (11:10): Okay.
Alvin McLean (11:10): And, uh, you know, I felt that it was uh-
Ruben Beltran (11:12): It was more personal when you said it here.
Alvin McLean (11:14): Yeah. Yeah.
Ruben Beltran (11:16): Okay, well, Man, thank you very much, you know.
Alvin McLean (11:18): Thank you.
Ruben Beltran (11:19): Let's hope they play this on NPR sometime. (laughs)
Alvin McLean (11:22): (laughs)
Ruben Beltran (11:22): So we can hear it. (laughs)
Alvin McLean (11:23): We'll see. (laughs)
Ruben Beltran (11:25): Thank you.
Alvin McLean (11:25): All right.